Curse

Chthon · Jun 21, 2008, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

It is hard to get any exactly acurate data on Loot Scalling simply because you have to factor in the Random chance of a drop.

That's why you do synch experiments to force your pseudo-random rolls to be the same. That eliminates the "random" factor in drops. Any difference in the drops for players in parallel synched instances is presumably the result of loot scaling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eeks

Hm. Considering the success of the recent SF ecto runs..

Ectos are on the exempt list. Loot scaling does not affect them at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Try full party trapping or EoE bombing and you will see its not "very small"
Try solo farming one kill at a time and see a drop from 95% of the mobs, then say its very small.

I'm going by what the controlled synch experiments revealed. One test showed a difference of 4 drops (36 as opposed to 32) across all of Fahranur. That's small. My subjective experience is that the difference feels bigger, but a controlled experiment is more reliable than selective memory.

MithranArkanere · Jun 21, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47

I think that when it comes to bosses, instead of having a single drop, they have rated for each type of drop separately.

Why? Everytime I get 2, 3 or 4 drops from a boss, they are ALWAYS different types:
- Green
- Lockpick
- Dye
- Gold
- Weapon/Armor(Runes)
- Scrolls
- Book.
- Trophy
- Etc.

Anytime multiple drops come from a boss, types never are repeated.

dread slayer · Jun 21, 2008, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Guyz, I've been playing a/me heavy perma farming for some time (even b4 update) and i never had a moment in which i got less drops..... Well I did once when i killed all spectres at once wit cof........... It depends on how fast u kill/death ratio of the monsters...... Party size has never been a problem.... just flag ur dam heroes if u rlly want a team..

Chthon · Jun 21, 2008, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I think that when it comes to bosses, instead of having a single drop, they have rated for each type of drop separately.

Why? Everytime I get 2, 3 or 4 drops from a boss, they are ALWAYS different types:
- Green
- Lockpick
- Dye
- Gold
- Weapon/Armor(Runes)
- Scrolls
- Book.
- Trophy
- Etc.

Anytime multiple drops come from a boss, types never are repeated.

I've had a boss drop multiple copies of the same green for different players.

slowerpoke · Jun 21, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

They never did bother fixing the AoE nuke kill bug did they. Probably denied it even exists.

Mad King Corn · Jun 21, 2008, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

I have also noticed that rate of the drops in prophecies is better than those in either nf or factions...while eye drops are almost nil---kill 30 things before the first drop sometimes

I agree 100%, EOTN drops have always been very scarce, it takes a lot of kills to get a single drop, and then they are not even max. EOTN HM is no better in drop rates, the EOTN expansion has the worst drop rate of any chapter, expansion etc.. that Anet has ever created! The only thing that even made EOTN worthwhile for me is the PVE skills.

Ate of DK · Jun 21, 2008, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Instant fail

So how do explain that I can farm a certain way solo and get a drop off of nearly every mob, and yet I can enter Urgoz with a full party of 12 and EoE bomb mobs and get very few drops for the entire party?

You answered your own question by explaining what you do.

1. You're farming and maybe experience the AoE-bug and RoK effect.
Killing 30 enemies when the Edge of Extinction might trigger an anti-farming code. It wouldn't suprise me. I don't think that there is a good way to check this because the mobs are just überhuge here. Hence all the farm-builds.

2. Also keep in mind the section I wrote about how Anet changes Loot Tables for certain area's. The enemies at the start of Urgoz don't drop a thing for example. Which should immediatly make you think that perhaps something else might be going on.

Fay Vert · Jun 21, 2008, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Okay, lets try again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

1. You're farming and maybe experience the AoE-bug and RoK effect.
Killing 30 enemies when the Edge of Extinction might trigger an anti-farming code.

But ANet said that they removed anti-farming code.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

It wouldn't suprise me. I don't think that there is a good way to check this because the mobs are just überhuge here. Hence all the farm-builds.

There are no "farm" builds for Urgoz, people play Urgoz normally, as intended. If you think you can farm Urgoz please try it. It doesn't sound as if you know much about Urgoz at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

2. Also keep in mind the section I wrote about how Anet changes Loot Tables for certain area's. The enemies at the start of Urgoz don't drop a thing for example. Which should immediatly make you think that perhaps something else might be going on.

The Suicide bunnies at the start don't drop because they kill themseleves, just like they don't drop on the fire flower bridge. They had to change that specificaly for them because it was easily exploitable, this is no way explains the rest of the place. And its not just Urgoz, it happens everywhere you use the same skills. EoE bombing will expose how loot scaling really works, try it against grawl, you get the same, solo or full party. And its not loot tables because you can then go amd kill them in a different manner and get plently of drops.

Kill fast solo=get nothing
Kill fast party=get nothing
Kill slow solo=get everything
Kill slow party=get everything

ANet say its just loot scaling working as intended, if so, why doesn't their explanation fit this?

Fay Vert · Jun 21, 2008, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I'm going by what the controlled synch experiments revealed. One test showed a difference of 4 drops (36 as opposed to 32) across all of Fahranur. That's small. My subjective experience is that the difference feels bigger, but a controlled experiment is more reliable than selective memory.

Those Fahrunur experiments prove that loot scaling isn't working how ANet sate. 70 kills solo should give you about 9 drops. So why do they get 50-60?

Hyaon · Jun 21, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

I farm the monolith temple with the quest using my e/a sliver armour build. I open the shrines 1 or 2 each time until those are dead then next 2 etc. I usually get 1200 to 2100 gold in total not including rares/elite tomes, a lot of junk basically and lockpicks are common as well as dyes.

When I open all the shrines like mad, with air of supriority being rechaged faster and faster so I get to re apply shadow form and sliver armour sometimes killing 70 in one go, I get almost sod all ranging from 500-700g and rares/elite tomes simply don't drop.

I've done this farm for a over a year and a half, so I do notice a trend and its why instead of doing the farm in 10 minutes, I do it slowly in 20 minutes nowdays.
Just my 2 pence.

Samurai Goroh · Jun 21, 2008, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad King Corn

I agree 100%, EOTN drops have always been very scarce, it takes a lot of kills to get a single drop, and then they are not even max. EOTN HM is no better in drop rates, the EOTN expansion has the worst drop rate of any chapter, expansion etc.. that Anet has ever created! The only thing that even made EOTN worthwhile for me is the PVE skills.

I agree EOTN drop are bad, it just doesnt make any sense that im getting more valuable loot from level 16 mobs in prophecies than lvl 24 mobs in EOTN but yeah I guess the pve skills are worth getting and then you can get the hell outta there quick and use those pve skills someplace better.

romeus petrus · Jun 21, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Kill fast solo=get nothing
Kill fast party=get nothing
Kill slow solo=get everything
Kill slow party=get everything

That pretty much sums it up.

tmakinen · Jun 21, 2008, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I would like to remind that any serious hypothesis of the Loot Scaling mechanism must be able to explain this phenomenon. There's more LS related stuff in that thread as well but Chthon already covered the basics here

hallomik · Jun 21, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

I would like to remind that any serious hypothesis of the Loot Scaling mechanism must be able to explain this phenomenon. There's more LS related stuff in that thread as well but Chthon already covered the basics here

Thank you tmakinen. I was looking for the last 10 minutes for that graph to add to this thread.

What we really need is for two farmers (or one with 2 accounts) to synch farm an instance and then have one go very, very slowly: wait 1-2 minutes between each kill. Have the other blaze through as fast as he can. Do that a number times and I think we would put this to rest.

I've been checking this phenomenon informally myself. I often will go into a new zone to start farming and then go read a web page for a few minutes. When I come back, the first mob almost always drops something. Similarly, if I do this in the middle of a run - that is, go grab a sandwich - the next kill is nearly guaranteed to drop something.

Stolen Souls · Jun 21, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Just a few things that I noticed over the months...though I am certain most of them were already posted, or most people already know about. Just thought I'd chime in, lol.

-Drops certainly diminish as you re-enter a zone over and over. It's painfully obvious. The first run ever done against a certain group will yeild impressive drops. The second...not so impressive, and so on.
-Taking a break from farming one area, then coming back later seems to "refresh" the drops a bit, though they will quickly diminish again.
-Me and a friend used to farm a certain boss. We would leave the zone at the same time, and kill him relatively in synch. It was almost creepy how similar the drops we'd get were. He'd get a tome, so would I. He'd get a green, so would I. Dry run for him...me too.
-Killing foes one at a time SEEMS to yield somewhat better drops than uber-nuking everything at once.

Again, I know all of that was already stated, just wanted to mention it again.

Also on a side note, yes....EOTN drops are horrendous compared to any of the campaignes.

lordheinous · Jun 21, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I think that when it comes to bosses, instead of having a single drop, they have rated for each type of drop separately.

Why? Everytime I get 2, 3 or 4 drops from a boss, they are ALWAYS different types:
- Green
- Lockpick
- Dye
- Gold
- Weapon/Armor(Runes)
- Scrolls
- Book.
- Trophy
- Etc.

Anytime multiple drops come from a boss, types never are repeated.

I got three golds from a single boss a couple months back.

Savio · Jun 21, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

But ANet said that they removed anti-farming code.

No, the only thing they said they removed was:

Quote:

Repeated map entry no longer reduces loot.

Which could mean a couple of different things.

manitoba1073 · Jun 21, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

No, the only thing they said they removed was:

Which could mean a couple of different things.

LOL. Thats what the anti-bot farm code was. Repeatedly entering a zone lowers the numbers of drops.

Means only 1 thing it no longer exists. No wonder you guys seem to think that when Anet said that req 7 maxs were a rare drop you guys thought it was non-max.

Savio · Jun 21, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

It could mean repeatedly entering an area, killing a few monsters and leaving doesn't reduce drops. Or it could mean repeatedly entering and exiting the portal to an area doesn't reduce drops. There isn't anything to suggest what that update note exactly means. It doesn't matter anyway, the end result is that there's still anti-farm code besides loot scaling.

Darksun · Jun 21, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

One of the most misinformed, incorrect and stupid posts ever made. Check your facts, check the research and try again. Its very easy to prove, try reading my post again and then read the original dev update which explained what loot scaling was. As so many have posted so many times before over the last year, it is very easy to prove that it is inacurate. ANet have refused to acknowledge there is a problem despite undeniable proof, though they never state that findings are wrong (how could they) but merely things are as they intended. The dev update is a lie, and anyone who denies the rate of kill factor is ingorant/lazy/fanboy/gullible/newbie.

You can't just post that provable and repeatable facts are wrong purely because you want to believe something. By all means feel free to agree with the decision ANet made with loot scaling, but don't deny facts and don't think for one second that ANet told the truth, because they very provably didn't.

Ah.. the fanboy defense. When logic doesn't work, use insults. The drop/kill rate control is NOT loot-scaling. it's the regular drop code that's always been there. Your "proof" about build/drop rate is worthless unless you do it a thousand times at the same time/area/server per day at consistent intervals. You look at you puny double-digit data and think you've found the answer. It's funny really. In my experience after loot scaling my drop rate increased it was just luck. If you really just want to talk about drop rate then change you posts accordingly, but the boohoo Anet lied to me is just funny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

I just loled.

Didn't think anyone who frequented these forums would ever deny that large groups of monsters dying at the same time = less drops.

I know you probably have trouble with reading & comprehension, but THAT'S NOT LOOT-SCALING.